"He that has eyes to see and ears to hear may convince himself that no mortal can keep a secret. If his lips are silent, he chatters with his fingertips; betrayal oozes out of him at every pore."
Freud's psychic apparatus(a component of Freud's structural model of the psyche), for which he used to practice psychoanalysis, is composed of the instinctual id, the realistic ego, and the moralistic super-ego. The id drives our instinctual pleasures while the ego seeks out ways to realistically satisfy the id. The super-ego restrains our id from acting out its pleasures and tries to obey the moral codes of society. All three of these components are exist in our unconscious minds, but they exist at different depths. The id is buried deep within the unconscious mind, the ego is somewhere in the middle, and the super-ego peers into our conscience.
The above quotation came from Freud himself. What kind of role do the id, ego, and super-ego play in the act of lying, as described by Freud?
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(Alice Persons, Deidre Herbert, and Coleen Herbert are in charge of this post)
Freud's ideas on lying were a common everyday phenomenon as part of the psychic development. Like other acts, lies could be analyzed in the context of a patients life. When i child lies he or she is testing the power of their parents. Lost parental omniscience is incorporated into a child's intneralized controls and becomes an aspect of the superego.
According to Freud, we are born with our Id. The id is an important part of our personality because as newborns, it allows us to get our basic needs met. Freud believed that the id is based on our pleasure principle. In other words, the id wants whatever feels good at the time, with no consideration for the reality of the situation. The id doesn't care about reality, about the needs of anyone else, only its own satisfaction. In the lying process, this part of the mind is what may drive our instinct to lie; it is the id's way to get what it wants.
The Superego is the moral part of us and develops due to the moral and ethical restraints placed on us by our caregivers. Many equate the superego with the conscience as it dictates our belief of right and wrong. This part of the mind is what tries to turn the person against lying and doing what is right.
The ego is based on the reality principle. The ego understands that other people have needs and desires and that sometimes being impulsive or selfish can hurt us in the long run. Its the ego's job to meet the needs of the id, while taking into consideration the reality of the situation. This part of the mind is what decides whether the person is going to lie and side with the id, or not to lie and side with the superego.
In a normal person, the ego is the strongest so that it can satisfy the needs of the id, not upset the superego, and still take into consideration the reality of every situation. When someone lies, the id probably got too strong, and impulses and self gratification took over the person's life.
Freud says that mortals themselves are incapable of always telling the truth, and that deep within us rests something that will compel us to make an incorrect choice. The part lurking beneath our conscience is the id, which drives all desires such as aggression and love. However, our ego tries to reasonably find options for the id as the superego makes sure that the restraints of society are fully intact.
However, when one lies, the superego is ignored and the id is unleashed, often in the need of self-preservation. When a child lies to his parents about an event, there are multiple reasons why the lie may have been exposed: perhaps he was angry at his parents and wanted to frustrate them, or maybe he did not want to face the consequences for his actions. To go through the motion of lying, the ego must find an undesirable outlet for the id and overpower the superego of societal limitations.
When the Id, Ego, and Superego were described, I immediately thought about the movies and tv shows where the angel is on one shoulder, the devil on the other, and the persons mind is stuck in the middle.
The Id is equivalent to the devil side and will do anything, even lie to satisfy its desires. It doesn't care about the consequences, only about immediately getting exactly what it wants.
On the opposite side the Superego acts as the angel. The Superego wants everything done perfectly according to moral standards. It imposes guilt when things are not done in an honest manner.
The Ego is a compromise of both the Id and the Superego. It is the most conscious section. It tries to satisfy both the Id and Superego with its decisions, sometimes leaning one way rather than the other.
When lying, the Ego sides more with the Id rather than the Superego. But later the Superego may catch up and impose guilt on the conscious for doing so. As a result, the truth may be unfolded, or guilt may be dealt with in another way.
According to Freud's theory, the id, which is composed of our instinctual desires, and the superego, which is our moral compass, are always battling each other for control over our actions. The ego, which is stuck in the middle, must decide which side to oblige in order to keep the id and superego balanced.
The urge to lie obviously comes from our id. Lying is an instinctual action - we lie to get what we want or to keep ourselves out of trouble, even when we deserve the consequences. For most of us, our id causes our first thought when we do something wrong to be how we can lie to get away with it.
The superego is at the other end of the spectrum. When we do something wrong, our superego (or conscience) urges us to admit our fault and accept the consequences. This is often hard for us to do because humans naturally fear punishment.
Because the id and superego are in conflict over whether or not to lie, the ego must resolve the situation. When we choose to lie, the ego has decided to oblige the id, and our fear of punishment has outweighed our desire to tell the truth. When we refuse to lie, the ego has sided with the superego, meaning we will tell the truth and accept the consequences of our actions.
Freud's use of psychoanalysis allows him to see how a person thinks and reasons. The patient is able to speak freely and almost forgets the doctor is there. By analyzing the patient's train-of-thought, Freud is able to see connections between the patient's current actions and past experiences. Freud diagnosed such conditions as hysteria, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and depression through psychoanalysis.
The id, the primitive desire of the human subconcious, is demanding and wants its desires met immediately. This can lead to a person lying in order to meet the necessities of the id. The super ego is the "conscience" of the mind that tries to cancel out the id while the ego tries to find the balance. Sometimes that balance is to lie such as when the id has done something the super ego or society would not approve of, and it is necessary to cover it up.
Good job!
I'm going to introduce a new quote:
"Analysis does not set out to make pathological reactions impossible, but to give the patient's ego freedom to decide one way or another."
Do you think Freud could identify those patients who lied to him during their sessions? If so, why would they lie? What did the flexibiity of a patient's ego tell Freud about the state of their mind?
When Freud was analyzing his patients, he had no idea whether they were being honest with him or not. Granted, he probably had a relative idea ot the truth versus a lie, but there was no concrete technique for him to use in order to tell.
If a patient was lying, they were most likely doing so because they were either ashamed of the truth, or had not accepted it themselves. Those patients who did tell the truth displayed trust in Freud and within themselves.
An individual's ego controls his or her ability to determine right from wrong. Those patients who lie have a flexible ego, meaning their lines between right and wrong are blurred. From this information, Freud was able to determine the inner workings of the patient's conscious.
The role of the Id in lying exists at the core motivation of the lie. The compulsion to lie is born of our desire. We lie because we want, and we want because of the instinctual needs of the Id. The arch-nemesis of the Id, the Superego, is responsible for reservations and "second-thoughts." The Superego is our moral code, a person's sense of right and wrong. Most would agree that (in most circumstances) lying is wrong, and this is due to the fact that society serves to consistently shape everyone's Superego. The clash between the Id and the Superego is the conflict often referred to as a "moral dilemma." The role of the Ego, then, is to resolve the conflict. If the Ego often sides with the Id, we display a tendency toward compulsive, sometimes irrational behavior, acting only for ourselves without consideration for consequences. If the Ego tends toward siding with the Superego, it often results in someone that is anxious and guilt-ridden, unwilling to yield to even their most basic desires. Basically what Freud displays in this quote is that man has a propensity to side with the Id. Even in a conscious effort not to betray a secret ("If his lips are silent...") we eventually yield to the indomitable will of the Id.
Great job, everyone.
Kelsey I like your idea of a liar's blurred moral perception giving Freud insight. Perhaps this helped him to identify his patients as what we now term obsessive compulsive or depressed.
Freud could tell when his patients were lying by analyzing their train of thought and psychological motivations. He believed that all humans gave into the instinctual desire to lie in order to satisfy their id, which is the part of the psyche that acts according to pleasure principles. The id meets our basic needs without worrying about the consequences of our actions. People lie to get a short term desire, such as to evade trouble. Therefore, Freud's patients lied to satisfy their id and deceive him into believing what they wanted him to believe. Freud also thought that the flexibility of the a patient's ego was of great importance because it leads to stable mental health. The patient can equally give into all three components of the human conscience, which allows them to make mentally sound decisions in the long run.
By merely listening to what his patients told him, it is highly improbable that Freud was able to discern whether or not they were telling the truth. Although much information can be gathered from listening to someone's thoughts, this information is only valid if the verbalized thoughts are the true feelings of the patient. The patient could be lying as a result of their superego telling them that what the id wants is unacceptable according to societal views. They may be trying to save themselves the embarrassment or shame by covering up the truth. If the ego leans more toward accomplishing what the id wants, then the person in question is often pulled toward criminal tendencies. If ego gives more consideration to the superego, then chances are this person is often taken advantage of and is possibly depressed. The ego must maintain a healthy balance between satisfying both the id and the superego. If there is a significant sway toward either, the persons mental stability is compromised.
Whether or not we're aware of it, our id is perpetually motivating us to fulfill desire and considering every possible means to do so. Our superego will in turn repress the bounty of morally objectionable suggestions provided by the id, filtering our instinctual drives in the context of society. Finally, our ego finalizes the decision and realistically applies it.
Our psyches undergo this process when we tell a lie for our own selfish benefit. Seeking to achieve a goal, the id comes up with the lie among many others. The ego interprets the plan and rationalizes a feasible method of executing the lie. It is then up to the superego to decide whether or not the lie is worth overstepping ethical boundaries.
The process is slightly different if we were to lie for unselfish reasons. For instance, if one were to lie about seeing a friend cheat on a test, it is a decision between risking an honor offense to protect another and being honest to avert conflict with authority at the expense of said other. The id seeks self-preservation and therefore influences the ego to condemn whoever necessary to maintain safety, whereas the superego considers the welfare of others and will develop a lie in order to avoid the guilt associated with turning in a friend. The ego again interprets the conflict and subsequently decides on which action to take.
Everyone has their own opinion on lying, whether it be that lying is always immoral or that it is acceptable in certain instances. Therefore, the manner in which one's psychic apparatus operates while lying depends on where his unconscious priorities and moral code stand.
Coleen,
I loved your quote by Freud! It really exemplifies the concept of ID, EGO, and SUPEREGO. Also, it makes you really think about your psyche in general - well done!
Channing,
I enjoyed your very in-depth analysis of the ID, EGO, and SUPEREGO. You have a very firm grasp of this interaction! This is a very effective model for everyone to follow for the amount of thoroughness and detail expected in a quote.
Ashley,
The devil and angel on the shoulder idea is a great analogy for this concept!
Deidre,
Very interesting quote and wonderful food for thought! I wonder that myself...Are there cues that he looked for that would signal lying? I would need to see what my husband, the expert, thinks about that.
Kelsey,
Interesting comment about the flexible ego.
John,
Love the reference to the moral dilemma!
Alice,
Great job offering support and referring to a specific comment!
Ray,
Interesting differentiation between selfish and unselfish lies!
Anne Stuart,
Great point about mental stability!
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