"Still it was tremendous fun sitting there working and earning money. It was almost like being a man," (Ibsen).
A Doll House by Henrik Ibsen has powerful feminist undertones. Nora shows her independence by earning money and taking a more active role in the care of the family. She starts to enjoy being able to work for herself and take care of others. Nora's secret financial independence empowers her and gives her a sense of responsibility that fuels her sense of freedom. Show how this quote provides insight not only into Nora's personal mentality, but also into societal views concerning the role of women in this day. Discuss how Ibsen's play contains some examples of true feminism, while not giving the women too much credit.
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This quote from Ibsen's "A Doll House" displays the fact that Nora was not used to working on her own and being independent. Women were considered subordinate to men during this time, and it was seen as the man's job to earn money for the family. It was Nora's opinion that she was just as good as any man, possibly even better. But, since Nora was forced to keep her independence a secret from society, it was obvious that this mentality was not common.
The feminist points in this play are shown through Nora's need for independence, and her ultimate decision to leave her overly dominant husband. Furthermore, the character Krogstad diplayed Ibsen's personal respect for women and appreciation for them as individuals.
Overall, the play had a feministic feel without overdoing it. It empowered women without trying to give the impression that they are perfect beings.
In this quotation, Ibsen shows Nora's naivete when it comes to surviving in the real world. She works in secret to pay off her debt to Krogstad. While it may have been "tremendous fun," it was not necessarily like having a legitimate day job. Her working experience can be more accurately compared to a child playing or a teen with a summer job rather than a person who must work to support himself or herself and a family.
This quotation exemplifies the sexist views held by society during this era as well. Nora is implying that the only ones who can work and earn money are men. Women who must work to support themselves are looked down upon and pitied. This is especially evident in the case of Mrs. Linde, a widow. A solid example of feminism found in "A Doll House" is the fact that Krogstad is going to be fired from his job at the bank and will be replaced by a woman. Through Krogstad and circumstances surrounding him, Ibsen lets his support of moderate feminism be known. However, Ibsen is not a complete advocate for feminism. Were he entirely pro-feminism, he would have said that Nora could have been both a wife, mother, and independent woman.
Because she is from the upper class and lives in a male-dominated world, Nora has never had to work before. Her husband has always been there to provide everything she needs, but now she herself must work, a new experience for her. In her childlike way, she finds the work "tremendous fun". Nora feels like she has finally accomplished something and proved to herself that she is worthy of equal treatment, even though the work she does is simple and doesn't bring in much money. She is also giddy about her "job" because it is a small rebellion against the narrow-minded views of her husband and society in general toward women.
The play's feminist undertones are revealed by Nora's desire to work. By having Nora provide for her husband instead of the other way around, Ibsen reveals his support for the equality of women. The character of Mrs. Linde also makes Ibsen's feminist beliefs evident. Though she is a widow, she is able to support herself and her mother, and even the chauvinist Mr. Helmer believes that she is capable of working at the bank. However, as Anne Stuart said, the play is not totally feminist because Nora is not capable of staying true to herself while still being a wife and mother. She must abandon her family in order to find herself, showing that the play is not completely a feminist work.
This quote reflects on Ibsen's ideas of feminism. Nora, of course, is the main character Ibsen uses to show his idea of feminism. Nora first appears naïve and childish, yet later she musters up the courage to leave her home, her husband, and her children. Ibsen shows that if she can leave Torvald, then women of the time could leave their unhappy or abusive marriages.
Mrs. Christine Linde is another less prominent character that Ibsen uses to show that women can do things without a man. After Mrs. Linde was widowed, she took care of her dying mother and young brothers. It was because of her that her mother's last years on Earth were quite easy and her brothers would have a bright future.
Although feminism is reocurring thoughout the play, Ibsen does not conform to a complete feminist view. He still shows the beliefs in society at that time when the men in the household have power over everything, including the women. Also, he does reveal that Nora leaves not only her husband but her children also, which is not normal or feminist in any way for that time period or the present day.
Nora never had the need to work before Krogstad threatened to tell her husband, Helmer, about her large loan. In attempt to earn money to pay him back, Nora worked at odd jobs and suprisingly enjoyed her tasks. This shows Ibsen's feminist undertones. Women during this time period, especially of Nora's class were not accepted as independent beings, which is why Nora could not advertise the enjoyment she had in working. Nora obviously had opposing views from those in society by thinking women could be equals to men in the workforce, which shows her strong mentality.
Ibsen was not completely feminist in his views. As Anne Stuart and Andrea have already said, a real feminist story would not require the woman to completely walk out. Complete feminist views would allow a woman to have everyhting including her children, husband, and personal indepandence. Therefore, Isben does not give women too much credit in his story "A Doll House".
Great job so far guys, I totally agree with the comments about Nora's inability to maintain her role as a mother while reinventing herself.
At this point in the story, Nora is mostly concerned about having fun and getting attention. It is ironic that she thinks that she is working hard when, most of the time, she is busy prancing around, looking like a little lark, while eating her macaroons and playing with the children. This is a role that was expected of wives, during the time period.
In contrast to her friend, Ms. Linde, Nora does very little. Ms. Linde is a widow and, therefore, has to find a means to survive, a difficult feat when men played a dominant role in the working world. Ms. Linde's character is the perfect standard for feminism. Throughout the story she is knitting or working, and it is remarkable that she is able to land a job at the bank, especially when there was another male up for the position. But Ibsen does not bestow too much power to women. It was a disappointment to see Ms. Linde leave to care for Mr. Krogstad and fix his family.
While this was a plight to feminism, Ibsen balances the mistake when Nora leaves her husband, Torvald. She realizes that she was merely acting as a toy in his perfect world, and left to find meaning in her own life and to establish her own morals.
This quote comes from a point int he plot when Nora's character is still defined only by her creativity and childishness. When she tells Mrs. Linde about her massive financial undertaking, she makes the circumstances sound like an important part of a game. However, we cannot classify her nature as immature, because her financial plannings required both a large amount of intellect and responsibility.Ibsen is showing us her potential(and hinting towards the ending of the play), but not without giving her child-like qualities. Audiences can't give all the credi to Nora, simply because of the way she phrases her speech. If she were more forward and direct, maybe we could give her more respect in the beginning of the play. Right now, she is entertaining; she is the Nora Torvald has created. While the wheels of feminism may be churning in her head, she is still very much alive in the "now".
(I forgot to mention how "this quote provides.....societal views concerining the role of women")
Perhaps the idea that Ibsen created in the play, that women are commonly abused emotionally and confined to the home, tells us something about the roles of women during that time. Victorian era: Women are homemakers and socialites. This is something that we know from history. But in A Doll House, we are not only shown the traditional roles of women but their potential to break this mould.
Nora finds satisfaction in earning money. Traditional family roles are reversed when Nora assumes the responsibility of taking out a loan, which is a “man’s job.” During this time period, only males were allowed to manage finances. It was rare and looked down upon for a woman to handle money. Overriding gender responsibilities, Nora takes out a loan by forging her father’s name. She did this because she felt it was the only way that her husband could recover. Traces of feminism are present in Ibsen’s work because of Nora’s fearlessness of taking on a “man’s duty,” especially during this time period.
Mr. Helmer’s discovery of the forged loan enraged him and during his outburst, Nora came to the realization that she must leave her family to find herself. Once again, gender roles have been reversed. It was unheard of for a woman to walk out on her children and husband. Nora’s desire to seek self-fulfillment is indicative of feminism.
Even though Nora overcame many boundaries, she could not handle everything. She knew that she could no longer stay with her family because she had too many expectations. Even though she lost her family, she gained liberation and self-respect.
The quote shows the reader that Nora is not turned off by, "men's work" and actually enjoys and embraces the independence the work gives her. The play is mostly regarded as a feminist work, however this is arguable, because while it is shown Nora is able to live a free life similar to the male lifestyle, but unlike other feminist stories, she can't have it all and has to sacrifice in order to do so.
Y'all have brought up some interesting points about how Ibsen develops Nora's multi-faceted personality. The reader is introduced slowly to her feminist ideas, even as Nora progresses in her maturation. However, certain elements of her character prevent one from completely taking Nora seriously. On the other hand we have Mrs. Linde, who, it seems, regresses in her feminist qualities throughout the play. She is introduced as a self-supporting woman, and abandons this life in favor of the role of a home-maker. This serves as near reversal of Nora's actions. Everyone has made excellent contributions.
During this time period, women were viewed as subordinate to men in all aspects of life. They were not trusted with economic duties or making a living, and were only useful for petty chores around the house and caring for the children. However, Nora fights her husband's suppressive and controlling nature by not follow society's standards for a woman. She does not care for her children all by herself because she hired a nanny to do the grunt of the work. Nora also took the family's financial situation into her own hands when she took out a loan without Torvold's approval. Also, by saving Torvold's life, Nora acted as the superior being in the relationship. Perhaps Nora's main showcase of feminism in this play is when she walks out on her family at the end. Society accepts a man abandoning his children; however, a wife leaving her family is unheard of in this time when women were perceived as dependent creatures that couldn't survive without the guidance of a male figure. By Nora seizing her independence and freedom, she solidifies her feminist stance.
Nora's genuine desire to work in a male dominated society reveals the feminist undertones in Ibsen's "A Doll House". Although she has an income and a newly discovered independence from her controlling husband, Nora is forced to keep this income a secret which reveals the feminist ideals while not giving her as a women too much power, keeping this portrayal realistic.
-Elizabeth Edens
From the beginning of the story it is clear to see that Nora lives in an upper class society of a male dominated world. However, the reader can see Nora's desire to break out and gain a sense of independence. Her full independence comes when she finally leaves her husband. On the other hand, because Nora has to keep her income and desire to be independent hidden, she cannot reach her full independence until she leaves Trovald.
The fact that Nora feels empowered by being able to earn money suggests the book's feminist undertones. However, if this work had been a true feminist work, Nora would have been able to maintain her ties with the family while simultaneously being a strong, independent woman.
During this time, women were expected to take care of the house and entertain guests. Doing anything outside of their "sphere of influence" in the house was frowned upon, especially in this Victorian time period. Ibsen hints that perhaps women have the potential to break these established societal customs, but at the same time he shows that women are not as powerful as the play initially seems to suggest.
Kelsey, I liked your comment about women not being depicted as perfect in Ibsen's play. Anne Stuart, I like how you compared Norah's work experience to a teen with a summer job. I also liked how you pointed out the Krogstad is being fired and replaced by a woman!Andrea, Nora's desire to work is definitely feminist in and of itself. Channing - very interesting idea about Mrs. Linde showing she can handle life without a man.
John - you redirected at the right time and brought up a great point! Coleen, I like how you pointed out Ibsen's technique of juxtaposing Nora's childlike traits with intelligence. Also, very important that you mentioned the Victorian era. Deidre good comment about role reversal and Nora gaining respect.Abby, good point about Nora having to sacrifice.
John, I like how you stepped in again and juxtaposed Mrs. Linde and Nora - well put!
Kristen, great point about Nora really acting as the superior being in the relationship. Alyssa, true that Nora really doesn't achieve true independence! Meera - interesting word use - "sphere of influence"!
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